I'd upvote it if you presented the evidence scholars use to support this belief, as that was what the question asked for. God sent them into captivity and God brought them back from captivity, and the prediction of Cyrus by name proved that it was the God of Isaiah, the LORD God of their forefathers who had done everything. One of his predictions was about the city Babylon. The theme of returning home is clearly present, not only in Deutero and in the Isaiah Tritus, but also and especially in Proto-Isaiah. There is the prophesies of the book of Daniel and Isaiah, there's some in Jeremiah and one in Micah saying where the Saviour would be born, but, when it comes to detailed accurate prophesies, there are not so many. (Isaiah 44:16-20). How do we know which one is right? If Chapter 53 could be prophesied by a prophet could not the very same prophet have predicted a deliverer by name, i.e. Babylon was one of the most important cities of the Assyrian empire (with Kalash, Assur and Ninive), so that Tigat Pileser III, after having conquered Syria and destroyed Damascus (732), assumed the title of king of Babylon with the name of Pulu (729). Don't see "proof" one way or the other. Moreover, the practice of subjecting Jewish prophetic literature to foreign kings is in line with all Jewish tradition. sabbath; there was a withholding of the tithes - but none of these authors This point is actually touched upon in Talmudic sources, and is readily apparent to the careful reader of our contemporary "books" in many places, particularly when read in the original Hebrew. My question is. Eugene Faulstich who has worked on Bible Chronology believed it was written by one author. 35:6 and 41:18; Scrolls discovered in Qumran in 1947. who spread out the earth by myself, v24 Passages from both collections are recorded by various Book of Mormon writers Victor L. Ludlow,Unlocking Isaiah, pp.56, Since Isaiahs ministry was centered in Jerusalem, this is the most likely location of the books origin.ibid. ("Darius" in the account of Daniel) took the city without a battle; a few days later Cyrus could march in triumphantly. The Two books are written almost entirely in Hebrew poetry and they are joined by a few historical chapters (36-39) written mostly in prose. There are similarities of expression found in both 1-39 and 40-66. Di Lella, "Daniel" in, Center of Contemporary Jewish Documentation, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Timeline_of_the_Hebrew_prophets&oldid=1082234151, Short description with empty Wikidata description, Articles with unsourced statements from July 2012, Articles with unsourced statements from February 2019, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 12 April 2022, at 01:53. Isaiah's call was in year King Uzziah died--748 BC. The superscription identifies Isaiah as the son of Amoz and his book as "the vision of Isaiah . After the defeat of Sennacherib under the walls of Jerusalem (chapter 37) and the miraculous healing of King Hezekiah (chapter 38), the so-called Deutero and Trito Isaia (chapters 40-66) seem to proceed without interruption, announcing a period of promises and consolations for all of Israel. 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. Oh, and at the time Isaiah was written, they absolutely had a work for ball or globe. Ch 2: Israel Forsakes God Ch 3:6 Unfaithful Israel Is Isiah the only book written in poetic form? 1932 ford coupe body for sale australia. He would have told us about them then, the way he mentioned Nicolaus of Damascus for a later period. (I) This fact is recognized by the various New Testament writers, who quoted Isaiah more than 90 times. Who would care at all for these writings if that was how they were produced? Neque enim Kyrio, quod Dominum sonat, sed Cyro dicitur, here Hebraice appellatur Khores, regi Persarum, here Babylonem Chaldaeosque superavit. Frankly, the post-Captivity world in the Old Testament is remarkably similar to our modern world, namely, no graven images, no gross worship of the ancient vicious gods of Baal and Molech, and no miracles either (until the New Testament period). Exile in Babylon Babylonian Empire: 1984 BC 539 BC Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon: 605 BC 562 BC All dates are given according to the Common Era, not the Hebrew calendar. But, there are serious problems with this view (that some anonymous prophets were involved in the production of the final book of Isaiah): There aren't any. which is a clear case of going beyond what is written in the Scripture, (though I must stress that these titles are not in the inspired Scripture text itself, they merely introduce the Scripture.) If you are going to dismiss those folks as "cynics", I'd like to see some backup for that. Isaiah 42 appears to speak of the destruction of Israel as an event in the past: Who handed Jacob over to become loot, Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah, Hear the word of the Lord Almighty: The time will surely come when everything in your palace, and all that your predecessors have stored up until this day, will be carried off to Babylon. Haggai and Zechariah write about the period 525 to 515 BC, Malachi is some time after the Captivity, probably about 430 BC, Ezra is writing about the events of the whole period from 539 BC to very roughly 430 BC, Nehemiah is writing about the period 445 to 430 BC. Would anyone? whose right hand I have grasped, To me, it's much less confusing. For others, believers and non-believers, from chapter 40 onwards, the prophecies would have been, instead, elaborated by a "Deutero Isaia", certainly inspired, but lived in the days of exile. In addition, there is no condemnation of idolatry amongst the Jews in the book of Esther either (about 480 to 475 BC), nor in the apocryphal writings between the Testaments. 1. perfect, So as to say of Jerusalem, Thou art built, And of the temple, The inclusion of "Koresh" by the Jewish revisions of the first centuries of the vulgar era could therefore depend on the fact that the Greek "Kyros": a) it was also the almost providential translation of Ciro's proper name; b) had had a special effect on the Persian emperor when he read, probably in Greek, the prophecies of Isaiah; c) could very well be retranslated with the proper name "Koresh" without falsifying the sacred text, thus blocking the passage above all to the Christians who identified Jesus Christ with the "Christ Lord" of the Seventy. The text is written so as to appear that the prophecy had taken place before the event, when in fact it was written after the events supposedly predicted. There are also those who think that the divine inspiration would have glimpsed the sacred author only a generic king of the Persians, menacing people already settled in the North and East of Mesopotamia in the time of King Hezekiah (the first historical mention of the Media and Persia dates back to 835 BC: in the annals of Salmanassar III it is said, in fact, that the Assyrian king received the tribute from the king of Persia and reached the regions of Media on Lake Urmia). 125 BCE, it is It is assumed that Isaiah arranged his writings into their present order, although a scribe or disciple may have done so. But the only Persian loan word in the book of Isaiah is the name "Cyrus". Your anthology point is key here. On the other hand, the threat of warlike and powerful peoples from the North was also felt by Jeremiah (Jeremiah 50,3; 50,9; 50,41; 51,48) who, by prophesying about the fall of Babylon, made explicit reference to the future destructive action of an anonymous king of the Media (Jeremiah 51.11 and 51.28). Obviously, Chapter 53 truly predicts the future because we have it preserved in the Great Isaiah Scroll of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which we know was written at least a century and a half before the beginning of Christ's ministry. Before the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BC there was idolatry and worship of Baal, even child sacrifice in Judaea. And yet many Jews cared a great deal about their religion and their Scriptures. and proclaim to her 2 I will go before you I know what the exile could mean. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. that she has received from the Lords hand who formed you from the womb: Thus says the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, Flashcards. Why would they have revered them so much if those same scriptures were messed about with so much as modern scholars say they were? 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? We have therefore the question "Is there any evidence that the book of Isaiah was written before Cyrus?" Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? Of course I'll try to apologise if what I wrote provoked anything other but thoughts. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? Replacing broken pins/legs on a DIP IC package. 3 Reasons Why You Should (Re)consider the Doctrine of Justification. http://biblechronologybooks.com/scientificmethod.html http://biblechronologybooks.com/hebrewkings.html. However, our disagreements aside, an. But that is not the half of it: the Jews were not very mistreated while in Babylonian "captivity". There was intermarriage with foreign women of idolatrous background; Also the bit about divine inspiration might derail the topic and start an opinion based debate. This fits with the timeline of chapters 139, where the Babylonian captivity clearly hasnt taken place yet. My next question is if the book of Isaiah came about in the way that modern scholars say that it did, with redactors adding portions such as passages about Cyrus after the event it pretends to predict then "Where are all the other books of prophecy"? According to 3 Ne. 1:11 and 1:14 with 43:24; Answer (1 of 4): The answer is not as simple or linear as hoped. The people who wrote the New Testament saw Isaiah as one book. Assardhon then ordered the reconstruction of Babylon but Assurbanipal subdued it again (648), after looting Thebes (665) and before destroying Susa (639). Among the most authoritative testimonies it is necessary, in this regard, to remember: Pseudo Barnabas, Letter of Barnabas, XII, 11; Irenaeus, Exposition of the Apostolic Preaching, 49; Novatian, The Trinity, XXVI; Tertullian, Against Prassea, XI, 7-8 and XXVIII, 11; Tertullian, Against the Jews, VII, 2; Cyprian, Testimonies against the Jews, I, 21. As far as we know, the book has always existed as a single collection, and it has always been called Isaiah. If so, no miracles or prophecies are required to explain the mention of Cyrus in the Book of Isaiah: Chapter 45, where his name is mentioned, was originally written during the time of Cyrus's rule. Cross posted at, @Henry - tense has nothing to do with it. Every book of prophecy in the Old Testament has the name of the prophet who gave it. It is necessary, however, to take into account the fact that the original Hebrew text was irretrievably lost, Aquila, Tivatzione and Simmaco used "Kuro" in open dispute with the Christians, the testimony of Gerolamo dates back to the IV century after Christ and the Masoretic text stabilized only towards the 10th century. the God of Israel, who call you by your name. them. what animals eat kangaroo paws in the savanna . 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. It enveloped them in flames, yet they did not understand; that her hard service has been completed, in the ships in which they took pride. tippah county news. in Hebrew is also rendered Tartan in the JPS version or, Oh. Modern scholars argue that the book of Isaiah is a collection of writings by various anonymous writers whose writings have been added over the centuries following the time of Isaiah. I suggest anyone who finds this odd actually investigate the clear(and obvious) parallels about these "doubles" for themselves. The second extant manuscript containing speculation is Miniscule 81 from the 11th century which claims. Not very likely, I think. I will break in pieces the doors of bronze He turns them to dust(J) with his sword, By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. By "cynic" I simply mean those who have decided the book Isaiah is an amalgamation of different writings, by different authors, some anonymous. Particularly interesting is. Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, . I know what you're going to go through. By the time our Isaiah Scroll was copied (the last third of the second century BCE), the book was already regarded as a single composition. By submitting your email address, you understand that you will receive email communications from HarperCollins Christian Publishing (501 Nelson Place, Nashville, TN 37214 USA) providing information about products and services of HCCP and its affiliates. The term "the Holy One of Israel" referring to God is used many times in Isaiah but rarely outside the book of Isaiah: it is used 15 times in 1-39 and 14 times in 40-66 but only 6 times throughout the rest if the Old Testament and one of those 6 times is when referring to the words of Isaiah (2 Kings 19:22). @user438 The hypothesis that prophecies generally don't work isn't assumed totally. Indeed many think there were three parts, chapters 1-39, 40-55, and 56-65, written at different times and probably by different people. prophecy of Jonah[1] during the time of Babylonian captivity, though dating of the book ranges from the 6th to the late 3rd century BC. who alone stretched out the heavens, The Old Testament knows nothing of anonymous prophets. The scholarly view is that the "prophecy" of Daniel was written in the 2nd Century B.C. History Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for historians and history buffs. That the activity of Deutero-Isaiah falls into the final phase of exile can be substantiated: Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it. 1 Chronicles 16:30 (KJV) . revealed? Isaiah was the great forerunner of the writers. If you have any questions, please review our. The Great Isaiah Scroll, containing Isaiah Chapter 53, is dated to about 125 BC, over 100 years before the time of Christ: 53 Who hath believed our report? there was oppression of the poor by the rich; there was desecration of the (To check this use Biblegateway.com). Search Isaiah is a resource for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to dive into the book of Isaiah. Daniel 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped . Isaiah 53. Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He And they will bring all your people, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the Lordon horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels, says the Lord. (Isaiah 42:8), But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and . . ", It is not a prophesy as it was written in the past tense. and the hoards in secret places, In the Bible, Isaiah 13:1. says, "The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.". 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Still others, like Dr. John Oswalt, argue that Isaiah was the original source for all 66 chapters, but that the book was assembled over the years from his collected works: his speeches, sermons, talks, and comments. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. Before 687BC. They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the Lord in ceremonially clean vessels. Isaiah 66:20. This could do with some editing as it's very hard to follow the logic in this answer. Because Isaiah 40-66 contains Chapter 53, one of the most breathtaking prophecies in the whole of the Old Testament. While scholars disagree about exactly how to interpret the signs of multiple authors, theres a common thread: the prophet Isaiah wrote the book of Isaiahwith help. In the book of Esther there are a lot of Persian loan words; in Ezra there are Persian, and some Persian in Chronicles both 1 and 2. "Cyrus" is in 44:28 and 45:1 because God is gracious and kind towards his people. The proof we have that Chapter 53 is a true prophecy of the future should enable us to believe the name "Cyrus" was announced before he was born. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. ]- a language history of the world" by Nicholas Ostler, who is I think neither a "loony fundamentalist atheist" nor a "loony fundamentalist Christian", like some of the people on here, so he has no axe to grind either way.). The mention of the media in the "Proto Isaiah" (Isaiah 13,17 and 21,2) is due to the fact that the Assyrians hired in their ranks a large number of Mediums and Elamites, warlike and rebellious but very versed in the art of war . Most of the Hebrew Bible (OT) is comprised of anthologies and compilations that represent collections culled from diverse sources, oral and written, that were edited and composed into the "books" which we have today. Enhance your schools traditional and online education programs by easily integrating online courses developed from the scholars and textbooks you trust. Place or time information is completely missing. of idolatry in the land of Judah. When God had a message for the people, He spoke to them through prophets: men moved by the Holy Spirit to speak on God's behalf. and of the temple, Your foundation shall be laid. v28. I call you by your name, You have hundreds. In chapter 56, Isaiah jumps ahead again, to a time when the second temple is at least under construction. by a path his feet have not traveled before. Two hundred years ago, none of the major historians, Herodotus and Xenophon included, had any clue as to who Sargon was. It seems to me it comes down to what you believe is true. It is assumed that Isaiah arranged his writings into their present order, although a scribe or disciple may have done so. they did not obey his law. Do these passages not tell us that Isaiah 40-66 was written before the Babylonian Captivity? How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner, Below is a list of all the prophetic books of the Old Testament where the author is anonymous:-, Though many readers might not value its witness, the New Testament in many places attributes the whole of the book of Isaiah to the prophet Isaiah. Thank you for your contribution to the community. The Book of Isaiah can be divided into (at least) 3 sections--one of the most popular descriptions is: The Assyria section . Note that in Jewish scripture, Daniel is not considered a prophet and is not included among the prophetic books. and cut through the bars of iron, Its a single scroll from end to end, with no divisions or signals from a copyist that there is some sort of change between chapter 39 and 40. Isaiah, son of Amoz ('First Isaiah') wrote chapters 1-39, apart from numerous subsequent additions and alterations. wensleydale cheese sauce. Nevertheless, some believers accept the visions of Isaiah without perplexity, because they think that the prophecies contained in the "Proto Isaiah" concern the great destruction of Sennacherib of 689, after the attempt of Babylon to free itself from the yoke of the Assyrians. The concept is similar but distinct from postdiction, where prophecies that were genuinely written or spoken before the event are reinterpreted after the event to fit the facts as they occurred. In this regard, Gerolamo wrote: "Scio ad hoc capitulo non solum Latinorum, sed Graecorum plurimos vehementer errare, existimantium scriptum esse : "Sic dicit Dominus Christo meo, Domino"; ut intelligatur, juxta illud quod alibi legimus: "Et: Dixit Dominus Domino meo" (Ps 110.1). And for anyone to see this for themselves the only way is to read all of these books in their entirety. Until the year 1843, when the excavation at Khorsabad were started. By deleting a highly probable eventuality, even if not strictly demonstrable, it is possible that the scribes may have read to Cyrus a Greek translation of the prophecies of Isaiah, making some Hebrew form as "Adon Mashiyah" (Anointed Lord) with "Kristo Kyros", instead of "Kristo Kyrios", just to get the favor of the Persian emperor. says your God. Good answer as it goes. For your sake I will send to Babylon There is no good reason to doubt it was all written by the Prophet Isaiah whose prophetic ministry had started by 739 BC when King Uzziah died (Isaiah 6:1) and who died after the death of King Hezekiah, in the sole reign of King Manasseh which began 686 BC. Inicio; Nota Biografica; Obra; Blogs. The Jews felt they could not try to stop the Romans doing this because it was the Sabbath day a poor interpretation of their own scriptures, but, hey, they took those Scriptures seriously, and revered them. to subdue nations before him And you are right about two things: 1. the etymology and prior usage of the word, 2. comments are not for prolonged discussions (although this one was nice). In Isaiah. (Isaiah 50:11). "Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence without having recompensed, and I will recompense into their bosom. The only possible conclusion to draw is that He hands nations over to him CLAIM: If Isaiah really wrote from Israel before the Exile (739-681 BC), then he would have predicted King Cyrus by nameover two hundred years in advance. CTRL + SPACE for auto-complete. This is a time jump of approximately 150 years; the city of Jerusalem has already been destroyed and the people are living in captivity. Yet none of these suggests the slightest practice of By calling them cynics, it is not intended to be understood they are so named pejoratively just descriptively: if they were ever to be proved correct in their beliefs about the book of Isaiah they would not think they were insulting themselves to boast how very long they had been cynical about it. Whybray: "The Second Isaiah", JSOT Press: Sheffield, 1983. The passages in question are Isaiah 44 and 45, which is in the middle of the so called. I name you, though you do not know me. And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell. In this regard, the historian Josephus remembers how, to the 332 a: C., The book of Daniel was shown to Alexander the Great, revealing to him how the prophet had already predicted, several centuries before, the destruction of the Persian empire by a Greek prince. 34:8 and 61:2; calling him in righteousness(H) to his service[a]? Got any scholarly links for this stuff (particularly the second to the last paragraph)? An anonym. Despite all their rebellion He will have mercy on them still, and in order to be able to have mercy he must show them he is God and make them willing to obey him and go back to Judaea and the land that God had chosen for them. Thou art founded. saying of Jerusalem, She shall be built, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. I merely mean their belief is a cynical view of the book of Isaiah, and necessarily attributes bad motives - including an intention to mislead - to someone, somewhere in the production of the book of Isaiah as we have it today. 28:5 and 63:3. your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: The Persian conquest of Babylon, which took place in 538 by Cyrus (who occupied the city without fighting, declaring himself successor of Nabonidus at the behest of the god Marduk), would be treated, however, in some later chapters (Isaiah 46 and 47) belonging to the so-called " Deutero Isaiah. But after the Babylonian Captivity the sins of the Jews were different. The 54 columns contain all 66 chapters of the Hebrew . for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god. For Isa 41,2-3. These authors are also referred to as First Isaiah, Second Isaiah, and Third Isaiah. From what I've been able to dig up, the standard scholarly opinion is now that the material from Isaiah was from three different groups of sources, compiled roughly at three different times. In Cave One of Qumran, archaeologists found a complete 24-foot-long scroll of Isaiah, which contained all 66 chapters of the book. In my view, all of the above points 1 to 8 are accumulative evidence that the whole of chapters 44-66, along with the word "Cyrus" in 44:28 and 45:1, was written at the same time as 1-39, before the Babylonian Captivity, which started about 605 BC. The hypothesis of a One Isaiah is reinforced by the fact that all the Proto Isaiah is pervaded by the omen (Isaiah 29 and Isaiah 40) of an imminent fall of Jerusalem and further deportations by the millennial Babylonian power, only momentarily bent by the ascent of the Assyrian empire. 4. A major objection is that parts of the book are not . On the possibility of equivocating the proper name "Kyros" with the common names "Kyros" and "Kyrios" only Jerome dwelled, who narrated how numerous Fathers and many Greek and Latin translations had mistakenly attributed to Christ the prophecies concerning Cyrus, confusing the proper name "Ciro" with the term "Lord". It is peculiar that anyone living in our century should think the name "Cyrus" could not have been written 700 BC but must have been written after he became king of Persia.
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